tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2469017760558244027.post1696533379021186143..comments2024-03-28T02:34:54.641-07:00Comments on davetaylorminiatures: Why, oh why, do they keep on trying?davetaylorhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08137502467601937229noreply@blogger.comBlogger56125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2469017760558244027.post-75122593818239862862009-12-11T12:53:22.638-08:002009-12-11T12:53:22.638-08:00So what was the ultimate fall out of all this? An...So what was the ultimate fall out of all this? Any life time bands from competition, any deletions of CMoN accounts, any public heckling at local game stores?<br /><br />Eternal Damnation?Muskiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10328467370627934582noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2469017760558244027.post-62394973791971739032009-09-21T12:05:54.243-07:002009-09-21T12:05:54.243-07:00I know I am responding to this pretty late, but I ...I know I am responding to this pretty late, but I just found about this whole thing. As a person who won a bronze through someone else's disqualification, I can sympathize with those painters whose entries were elevated to a winning slot. Although in my case, the circumstances were different because the entrant in question was not attempting to claim credit for the entry. Regardless, this situation brings important issues regarding our hobby to the surface. <br /><br />The two persons guilty of cheating have taken away from the integrity of our hobby. I have no doubt in my mind that this was an intentional act and that the intent was to commit fraud in order to generate a higher selling price for the model.<br /><br />The majority of us don't participate in the hobby because it pays the bills, we do it because we love it. We devote our precious spare time and money to the hobby and enjoy sharing our creations with other hobbyists. We are very fortunate that GW spends so much time and energy providing a venue for hobbyists to showcase their work for other hobbyists to enjoy.<br /><br />Bottom line is that the spirit of the Golden Demons is to showcase the work of hobbyists and to grow and enrich the hobby. When I was a kid and just getting in to this hobby, I was so inspired by the Golden Demon coverage in White Dwarf that it made me aspire to constantly improve my painting. Now 16 years later, I have a bronze demon on my shelf.<br /><br />I didn't go on E-bay and sell the squad, it's not even in my house. The squad sits in the display case at my local game store and I help run the same informal, friendly painting clinic every wednesday. I helped run the the painting clinic before I won anything and I will continue to help run it until my fingers fall off and my eyeballs rot. I'm not the only award-winning paniter at the store, and i'm not the best, but I am the only Golden Demon winner in that group. Which brings me to my last point.<br /><br />The Golden Demon is arguably the most prestigous painting competition out there. These two and others like them drag the reputation of the event through the mud. I only hope that these two have tarnished the reputation enough that it takes a bite out of the value of trophy-winning pieces on the collector market.<br /><br />It's not about winning a trophy, it's not about money, it's about having fun and growing the hobby.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14034056538811727989noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2469017760558244027.post-87295264895170760832009-08-09T18:05:25.817-07:002009-08-09T18:05:25.817-07:00Is this really such a big deal?Is this really such a big deal?BThttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00130885596569505778noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2469017760558244027.post-83372631459624165962009-08-06T07:09:09.281-07:002009-08-06T07:09:09.281-07:00If this is allowed in some GDs (even if not the US...If this is allowed in some GDs (even if not the US ones), it's very possible that it was just an oversight by Karol! I think people are coming down too hard on him (and Marc) without having all of the facts. What if they simply didn't read the submission rules? You can say "tough cookies" but it means they committed a silly mistake, not a heinous act of subterfuge. And since they will pay the penalty (a stiff one), there's really no need to attack them as people without knowing if it was simply an error. <br /><br />I especially think that this blog post was too harsh:<br /><br />"I wish you nothing but unhappiness in your future toy soldier endeavors. You sully the hobby. While the painting may be spectacular, the spirit is so false it makes my skin crawl!"<br /><br />We're acting like a judge passing down a sentence, without a jury or a trial... (my wife had jury duty yesterday, so maybe my mind is on this). Just my $0.02!RiTideshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06410036386736213939noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2469017760558244027.post-21242788893939695422009-08-05T10:58:02.614-07:002009-08-05T10:58:02.614-07:00I am pretty sick of reading people coming to the d...I am pretty sick of reading people coming to the defense of Karol Rudyk over the last few days. Ignorance is not an excuse. Karol claims the he didn't know his "collector" was entering the miniatures under the "collectors" name. Yet Karol was tagging the photo's on CMON a golden daemon winners within hours of the results being announced,and even has Marc's name posted on the pics as the owner of the pieces. Karol has entered and won GD's before. Marc has entered Karols work under his own name before. All of this is documented. Both of them are culpable, The "collector" for being such shallow piece of trash thinking it's ok to buy himself 3 GD's and Karol for being an idiot at a minimum or 100% complicit in the deceit at the worst.<br /><br /> As someone who aspires to create a piece good enough to enter the GD's this is a sucker punch to the whole process. Despite Karols obvious talent, these two deserve all the grief they are getting and more, The US GD's rules are clear...not following them merits immediate disqualification..their actions in perpetuating this fraud and the fact this isnt the first time deserve worse.JPLhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12461099993856743894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2469017760558244027.post-92101369065521342402009-08-05T09:23:15.749-07:002009-08-05T09:23:15.749-07:00There are two sides of this story - painter's ...There are two sides of this story - painter's and collector's.<br /><br />It is entirely possible that a)Karol didn't know that entry was made b)didn't know that proxy entries are not allowed in USA. From several sources it seems that Karol doesn't speak/read English very well so more then likely he didn't read USA rules. As far as I know in Australia, for example, proxy entries are allowed. The fact that his model entered a year ago also doesn't mean much: the collector in question owned it and didn't have inform the author. Unless you are very paranoid like me :), you would hardly follow all GDs in the world, especially models that didn't win.<br /><br />Now, that being said... I have no doubt that the collector has a perfect command of English language. His actions are inexcusable. However, let us think for a second why such behavior is so common in the North America. Seriously, over the last five years I remember 2 documented cases in Europe (neither got above HM), here, however, we have incidents like this EVERY year. Twice this year alone. I am just wondering what motivate people to do things like this… they teach starting from 5th grade what plagiarism is.skeevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16279023032779864743noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2469017760558244027.post-32179303927454366832009-08-05T07:09:42.354-07:002009-08-05T07:09:42.354-07:00Wow this saddens me. I really can't believe so...Wow this saddens me. I really can't believe someone would do something like this for a trophy. The whole concept of the Golden Demon is to show off your best work, it's not really about the trophy. <br /><br />It's about letting everyone know how great this hobby is and what you can do with time, effort, and some immagination.Sprouthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07782980789088025352noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2469017760558244027.post-21837698682077430932009-08-04T22:01:58.799-07:002009-08-04T22:01:58.799-07:00I think you got so much response because you got a...I think you got so much response because you got a front page story on TGN.<br /><br />I'm just being goofy about Canadians, they travelled down here a bit to try to sweep some GDs and had built a "Team Canada", just teasing them :) Don't know what the first guy was talking about it for ;)-Q-https://www.blogger.com/profile/01216047899571296218noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2469017760558244027.post-88078123514343765112009-08-04T20:55:24.013-07:002009-08-04T20:55:24.013-07:00i'm guessing the Olympics with the gold metal ...i'm guessing the Olympics with the gold metal in skating to them when it was found there was cheating involved.<br /><br />(i dont' usualy comment on your blog, just read it, but this topic dragged me up)Brother Weaselhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13470227500945796876noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2469017760558244027.post-34152967271581631862009-08-04T20:45:15.806-07:002009-08-04T20:45:15.806-07:00@ Q, fair point. I must admit that I'm very su...@ Q, fair point. I must admit that I'm very surprised that my anger has drawn quite a bit of attention (and more than ten times as many comments as my last blog post).<br /><br />Could my thoughts/feelings have been better conveyed? Yes. <br /><br />If I face this kind of "hot-button" topic in the future I hope I can approach it with the appropriate level of zeal, and keep some of the snarkiness out of it.<br /><br />I must ask though, what's the Canada comment about guys? I feel clueless (or incredibly forgetful).<br /><br />Cheers<br />Davedavetaylorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08137502467601937229noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2469017760558244027.post-30503050190411879812009-08-04T19:35:24.783-07:002009-08-04T19:35:24.783-07:00Yeah moving stuff up after a disqualification caus...Yeah moving stuff up after a disqualification causes another whole grey area :(<br /><br />Dave and all... all I was trying to say is that there might be more to the story than we know and until it's all known we shouldn't all intarweb on them ;(<br /><br />It's also easy for the story to slowly slide in one direction or the other like a game of "telephone" if one post infers M & K did one thing then the next builds off of that and so on.<br /><br />Dave, I totally sympathize with the BS congratulations he took, not cool... and certainly sheds more light on the ordeal for me.<br /><br />I agree rules need to be followed, I was just rambling my way into saying "we're all human, be nicer about your anger" Hehe<br /><br />(I agree with the no Canada thing too though!)<br />;)-Q-https://www.blogger.com/profile/01216047899571296218noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2469017760558244027.post-74930138038450511132009-08-04T19:18:11.291-07:002009-08-04T19:18:11.291-07:00so the people who followed the rules should get pu...so the people who followed the rules should get punished because someone else didn't follow the rules? i'm glad you arn't GW:)Brother Weaselhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13470227500945796876noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2469017760558244027.post-59295236892622844252009-08-04T18:51:11.022-07:002009-08-04T18:51:11.022-07:00I see.
It's another case "Canada should ...I see. <br />It's another case "Canada should have another Gold medal". <br /><br />With that policy any future contests will be tainted by suspictions like "Winner been caught with cigarette, therefore he cannot be winner"<br /><br />Prize should go to painter of winning model, or been nullified (1st place been tainted by cheating, therefore we omitted 1st place in this year)<br />Descending prize on other model - it's no win, it's shame.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2469017760558244027.post-27024461162059143952009-08-04T17:59:28.601-07:002009-08-04T17:59:28.601-07:00Man, I was hoping I was going to get moved up to B...Man, I was hoping I was going to get moved up to Bronze, but James Wappel's Slann made it, which was also very good, so the sting isn't so bad. Still not sold on the Rat Ogre, though.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00811586170916204513noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2469017760558244027.post-26918042769278816082009-08-04T14:53:00.940-07:002009-08-04T14:53:00.940-07:00I'm just glad it wasn't a "layers&quo...I'm just glad it wasn't a "layers" contest. ;-)<br /><br />It probably won't hurt the painters mercenary painting business, but neither of them are entering any more GDs and possibly local contests, I mean who wants these guys at their show on the podium.<br /><br />GW always takes pictures of the winner and his statue. There is also that website which is trying to have pictures of every GD winner ever...<br /><br />It is a lot harder to win now, but it has always been a requirement to attend the event, I know people who won GD that had to travel a long frickin' way...Muskiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10328467370627934582noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2469017760558244027.post-7026848213474401372009-08-04T14:45:50.978-07:002009-08-04T14:45:50.978-07:00Kudos to Dave for being honest and upfront about h...Kudos to Dave for being honest and upfront about his model even if it didn't win it's still a great model and DAVE is deserving of the praise. Even though Marc may have "won" it's a hollow victory and everyone now knows he's a sham now that it's out in the wash.Stephen Habetshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13975150274268915675noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2469017760558244027.post-40560612123578208852009-08-04T14:17:36.235-07:002009-08-04T14:17:36.235-07:00i speed, i get got, i get a ticket.
they entered a...i speed, i get got, i get a ticket.<br />they entered against eh rules, they got caught they get a penelty. simple.:)<br /><br />and yay to happier stuff dave:)Brother Weaselhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13470227500945796876noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2469017760558244027.post-4795795408042446762009-08-04T14:05:39.298-07:002009-08-04T14:05:39.298-07:00@Rida - seriously? Yes I'm serious about this....@Rida - seriously? Yes I'm serious about this. There is a rule, the rule was broken. End of story.<br /><br />It does not matter if the model was better than the others in the category. Hell, Kyle Morgan wanted to enter his exceptional models and took the time and money to come to Chicago from the other side of the planet, because he knew and abided by the rules. They were great entries, competed according to the rules and won well-deserved trophies.<br /><br />There are no doubt a number of great analogies to liken your comment to, but I guess you have no problems with Olympic athletes competing under the influence of performance enhancing drugs, even though there's a little rule that some nitpicker might bring up that says no, they can't do that?<br /><br />So, those sprinters that break world records while juiced to their eyeballs should keep their records? They were the fastest. Just not within the defined rules of that specific competition.<br /><br />Q inferred earlier that we should all stop throwing stones, because this is a grey area and we all "cheat" and break the rules from time to time. He used speeding to illustrate his point.<br /><br />My response, I'm not exposing the driving records of anyone. I speed on occasion, I did it today - 75 in a 65 zone. I have no moral highground to expose a speeder.<br /><br />Nuff said.<br /><br />I'll post something happier soon, so that we can all move on from this hornet's nest I appear to have stirred up.<br /><br />Cheers<br />Davedavetaylorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08137502467601937229noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2469017760558244027.post-69991732426813162062009-08-04T13:29:59.672-07:002009-08-04T13:29:59.672-07:00That's part of the point of the outrage I thin...That's part of the point of the outrage I think. Everyone, except a very few, can except that there's probably a better painted miniature out there in the world than their current project. However, they enter anyway to compete in the competition in their area, to see how it stacks up. If you decide to allow painters to mail in their work, rather than showing up, you completely change the nature of the competition.<br /><br />I imagine one of the most frustrating things for the runners up is that their work has now been placed against something that shouldn't have been there in the first place. So now any award they should have rightly won will always leave a sour taste even if retro actively awarded.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2469017760558244027.post-80834490479255780112009-08-04T13:28:45.519-07:002009-08-04T13:28:45.519-07:00the problem is simple, and yes some people are ser...the problem is simple, and yes some people are serious about their competitions. the problem lies in 2 parts. 1 the guy who BOUGHT them entered them as his own.<br /><br />2 rules are there for reasons. there were several games days in the US this year, some of us didn't get to enter for various reasons (like that the one i LA was not done this year.) <br /><br />you are saying that it doens't matter that a rule was violated as long as it was better, so it's fine if a team of sculpters and painters make a single mini? or is it just rules you don't think matter? and how is it a bitter win if someone followed the rules gets advanced to the top, not the guy who brings in a mini that he didn't paint at all? (Karol didn't get teh award, the other guy did, it would be his name that goes intot the books)Brother Weaselhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13470227500945796876noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2469017760558244027.post-13901925994402000272009-08-04T13:03:02.473-07:002009-08-04T13:03:02.473-07:00are you guys really all that serious about this? w...are you guys really all that serious about this? was your model better than his and yet still lose? I don't know about you guys but it seems your forgetting that regardless of who hands the model to the judge, it was still that model that was the best of the lot.<br /><br />so yeah, because of a rule that has absolutely no bearing on how well a model is painted the runner ups have technically been awarded as winners. I still say that anyone with a real competitive bone in their body knows that they got beat where it counts by the painter and no amount of technical rules issues changes that fact.<br /><br />if I beat out a better painted model than my own because of a rule on how the minis are entered I'd toss the trophy in the trash since I knew it wasn't rightly mine.<br /><br />what a bitter win for the runner ups...unless they're the kind of folks who'll take any win they can get.Jackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10727916703894509734noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2469017760558244027.post-30859444505834433132009-08-04T12:56:56.673-07:002009-08-04T12:56:56.673-07:00I can barely hold a paint brush properly let alone...I can barely hold a paint brush properly let alone compete for a painting prize but I can see why the rules are there. If you can just send models of to be entered in all the different games days without actually going what is the point of having multiple games days. Just have 1 and have everyone mail in the entries to warhammer world.eriochromehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10377904099582258296noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2469017760558244027.post-2323411076820523642009-08-04T12:41:04.357-07:002009-08-04T12:41:04.357-07:00@ Marshal Argos, You are correct in stating there ...@ Marshal Argos, You are correct in stating there are descrepancies in many of the European GD rules..heck even Canada and the US had diferances up until recently. I do know that GW has been working hard to make sure that all the rules and categories are the same where ever you go and eliminate any of the "issues" that are out there.<br /><br />But simply stated this was a contest in the USA using USA rules.. no matter what they may be in France or Italy or where ever.. the US rules need to be followed and they were not. it is not difficult to read the rules..there should be no excuses.Dragonforgehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13927548699763153939noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2469017760558244027.post-39283068064415765642009-08-04T11:28:10.315-07:002009-08-04T11:28:10.315-07:00I think we're ignoring the fact that Marc and ...I think we're ignoring the fact that Marc and Karol have done this before, last year, but didn't get caught. I find it hard to believe the painter didn't know what his client was doing (i.e. taking credit for the work) when it had been done before. As for not knowing the rules, the painter is a recent (2006)GD winner himself, so he's obviously familiar with the questions asked when you enter the comp.<br /><br />I feel the painter deserves all the suspicion he gets.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2469017760558244027.post-22785014805244940222009-08-04T10:23:48.984-07:002009-08-04T10:23:48.984-07:00The rules state that you must be the one to enter ...The rules state that you must be the one to enter your mini. Simple as that. should there be a stipulation to allow people to enter any contest, dunno, don't see why we would have as many games day and demons if i could just mail my entry to my buddies around the world... but that's neither here nor there, the rules state that you cannot, and that if you do ou will be banned from future comptetion. no grey lines.Brother Weaselhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13470227500945796876noreply@blogger.com